TOPIC:

Edou wrote:

Don't know if I understand that post exactly...

thats Terminator in search for Manta Ray shock manuals. He'll be back

Btw - also had a look at the Manta Ray tune up guide.
Too bad only the hi-caps are mentioned there.
It's quite the Tamiya mystery...

Okay, I've finished figuring out what's what on the 50305 parts list :

Edou wrote:

01 - (2x) X tree (will specify later)
02 - (2x) Y tree (damper housings - will specify more later)
03 - (2x) front coil spring
04 - (2x) coil spring
05 - (2x) short AD piston rod (silver)
06 - (2x) longer Boomerang (and others) piston rod (black)
07 - (1x) damper oil
08 - (2x) oil seal
09 - (6x) 3mm O-ring
10 - (1x) front damper stay right
11 - (1x) front damper stay left
12 - (1x) front under stay right
13 - (1x) front under stay left
14 - (2x) aluminium collar
15 - (4x) 4x6mm tubing
16 - (4x) 3x20mm roundhead screw
17 - (2x) 3x15mm round head screw
18 - (2x) 3x6mm round head screw
19 - (4x) 3x12mm self tapping screw
20 - (6x) 3mm flange nut
21 - (6x) 3mm washer
22 - (4x) 2mm E-ring

I can say for sure that this is not a system that uses spacers to vary the length of the dampers.
Rather than that it uses two sets of piston rods (damper shafts) on different cars.

Still have to make the leap to why they would be listed as a spare part for the DF-01.
Only thing I can think of now that would make a difference is longer lower damper attachments...

Edit - X parts :

Aha - another clue to the puzzle.
A car from an overlapping period that there seems to be between 50305 and the newer 50520. The Grasshopper II :


50520 data sheet :


The new bit of info is the damper shaft length of 47mm that is mentioned here.
Plus the fact that those rear shocks are without a doubt longer than 82mm...

And then the plot thickens. Spare part 50305 is also listed in the Madcap manual.
For the rear shocks. Of which the data sheet of the newer 50520 sheet says they are 94mm!
This cannot be achieved in any way with the parts available.

Only thing I can conclude is that the damper shafts are to be recycled when getting item 50305.
And if you want to replace the shocks on your Top Force "vintage style" you'd have to settle for yellow instead of black.

Or am I missing something here?


Edit :

I wrote:

the damper shafts are to be recycled

Only you won't be able to with a Madcap...
At this point I'm kind of baffled.

I just love your threats, wish you good hunting for clues my dear Sherlock

Thanks, wb. I can sure be into the techinfo hunt...
Although I hit a bit of a dead end figuring out how to create a long enough damper for the later buggies.

So I decided to narrow down when Tamiya switched from the vintage to the modern CVAs.
And discovered something very interesting - the exact point where the change is made.
They're both on road cars so they've got the shorter shocks fitted (50332 and 50519) but it's crystal clear :


So I think we can say that when it comes to shock technology, the first 128 cars can be considered vintage.
The year was 1993...

Don't have an answer to the original DF-01 question yet but stuff like this is cool to know.
It's kinda weird that it stayed in production for so long and there's still so little data to find on the subject.

But okay, another real conclusion can be drawn from this.
If we look at the chart from the (modern) 50520 CVA set, it matches with the date of the switch.
Being that the 58124 Super Hornet would be the last car to have the longer vintage CVAs (50305) as a spare part.
Cars after that are not mentioned because this set has then become a regular item on the manual parts list :


Tamiya thought in retrospect (they tend to do that) to make it the spare part for previous models.
Which tells us the cars that originally have vintage shocks but a longer setting than seems possible.
The list of cars that have "impossible" lengths for a 50305 parts set (they only come in 77mm or 82mm) then is :

- 58074 Grasshopper II (for this it is a hop up) (1988)
- 58082 Madcap (also a hop up)
- 58085 Avante 2001
- 58087 Manta Ray
- 58092 Bear Hawk (dito on the hop up)
- 58100 Top Force

- 58101 Bush Devil
- 58106 Stadium Blitzer
- 58110 Super Blackfoot
- 58115 Terra Conquerer
- 58122 Blitzer Beetle
- 58123 Dyna Blaster
- 58124 Super Hornet (1993)

Illusive what they did in real time... and not in retrospect.

TBH I woke up late & although it's obvious you're trying to prove something interesting, I'm struggling to see just what that something is



Anyway, assuming this is relevant, I do have a some thoughts re the "impossible" shock lengths:

The longer lengths on the "modern" CVAs is achieved by using a 2-peice lower end - the bit that holds the spring on doesn't change, but the bit that screws on to the shaft can/does - the longer part gains something like 8mm over the short...

Using a flange nut on the lower end of the damper shaft gains a couple more mm ...

I can't think of examples right now, but I'm sure tamiya often specified re-using damper shafts during upgrades ... another complication is that these shafts might not be the ones that were required during the build stage of the original car, but may have been "spares" or extras in the kit ... so you also need an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the parts bags too

Also, there can be a difference between what length "should" be on the car & what will work - I don't know what "fiddle factor" Tamiya considered acceptable, but I'd think up to +/-5mm wouldn't be too unrealistic on 80-90mm shocks - if the shock is 5mm short you just put an extra preload collar on, if it's long you just put one less on ...

blackholesun mentions dampers too.

after the hotshot vids almost 1/3 down the page.

the interviews with the tamiya drivers are interesting reading stuff

Jonny wrote:

you're trying to prove something interesting, I'm struggling to see just what that something is

Started out mostly to get the correct data sorted for the damper overview here on TB...
I was researching there and thought the lengths for the later buggies looked off.
And then it just got a hold of me and I had to get to the bottom of it all.

@waterbok : thanks for the link - I'm gonna read up.
Funny thing about that page is that they're not using the "real" DF-01 for the picture but the QD chassis.
Which is quite a bit different...

Already learned something new there - DF means Dirt Four.